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Covenants – Discussion Forum – Week 4: January 29-February 4, 2017

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    • #14031

      Covenants – Discussion Forum – Week 4: January 29-February 4, 2017


      Welcome to Layperson’s Bible School, “Covenants” course.  We are going to have an exciting time digging deeper into the scriptures concerning this subject.  For our second week’s forum read the excerpt from the online devotional, by Bishop Keith A. Butler entitled, “The Everlasting Covenant” and respond to the questions below.

      No peeking at other students responses before posting your own.

      RULES FOR THE FORUM:  The forum opens every Sunday, In our forum discussions, you will post your response to my question(s) and then post a response to two (2) of your classmates to receive full credit.  You must post your response by THURSDAY of each week to receive credit.  Don’t forget to check your grammar and spelling because you will be graded on it.   I can’t wait to read your responses.  

       The tone of every post should be professional and NOT personally attacking in any way. The goal is not for everyone to agree but for everyone to handle disagreement in a Christ-like manner.  Any questions you have regarding the topic should be addressed to the instructor.

       The Everlasting Covenant
      by Bishop Keith A. Butler

      And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance.
      Psalm 105:10-11

      There is no expiration date on God’s covenant with the nation of Israel! Everlasting means for all time. Notice that God made the pact with Abraham, but it was for all of the patriarchs and their offspring forever.

                  The nation of Israel was established like no other nation on earth. God began it through a series of miracles, starting with the supernatural birth of Isaac. The rebirth of the nation in 1948 was another miracle and fulfillment of God’s promise and prophecy.

      God gave the land of Canaan to Abraham and his descendants; it is theirs forever. It doesn’t matter what the United Nations says or what the State Department of the United States does. God’s covenant shall stand for all time.

       Question:

      1.  How have you viewed Israel and the land controversy prior to reading this devotional?  Explain  Has your opinion changed?  Explain

    • #14668

      Rhonda
      Participant

      Prior to reading to Bishop Butler’s devotional, I understood that God gave his chosen people the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession. God calls Himself “the God of Israel” and has declared Israel his people, the apple of his eye. God’s Word is clear in Joel 3:2, that the land should not be divided up or sold (Leviticus 25:23) . It would cause the judgment of the Lord Almighty against all countries involved in this process. Genesis 12:1-3 tells us that the Lord will bless those who bless the children of Abraham, and He will curse those who curse the children of Abraham.

      God knew that their would be great turmoil surrounding His promise. Psalm 122, urges us to “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem”. It’s no mistake that the very name “Jerusalem” comes from the Hebrew root for shalom, the word for peace. We are truly living in the Last Days and are witnessing the Last Days regathering of Israel as stated in the Bible. God has brought them back into the land, and the enemy is doing everything he can to change this, even using nations. As Bishop stated, “God’s covenant shall stand for all time.” We must make up our mind in this increasing worldwide conflict where we stand. It’s either with the worlds popular opinion who are in rebellion with God or with God.

      -Selah!

      • #14674

        Marita Smith
        Participant

        Rhonda I have to agree with you that we are truly in the last days, it’s evident with all that is going on around us, in our community and right in our neighbourhoods. We have to come to a consensus of who we are rolling with, and whose side we are on, this is not the time to be unsure or living on the fence; if you are for Baal then serve him and if you are for God then serve him with all your heart, might and strength. God Bless!

      • #14690

        Raphael Ottley
        Participant

        Yes sister Liburd you are right with your statement when you say that the land of Canaan was a everlasting covenant with the children of Israel for a life time.

      • #14738

        Stacy Gregoire
        Participant

        Yes, Rhonda people have to make up their minds on whose side they are going to stand.  A lot of people want to ride the fence but God’s Word is clear on the matter.  The thing is, the nations that are putting pressure on Israel would never give up and divide their land so why are trying to force Israel to do so?

         

         

         

         

         

      • #14838

        Pamela Browne-Hodge
        Participant

        Regardless of popular opinion if God said it He will perform it!

    • #14672

      Marita Smith
      Participant

      Prior to reading Bishop’s devotional I must be honest and say I didn’t really give much thought to Israel and the land controversy, but I’ve always wondered why there was so much fighting among those nations. After reading Bishop’s devotional and also the wealth of knowledge I’ve gained in taking this covenant class in Laypersons Bible school I’ve now gained a better understanding.

      When God first revealed himself to Abraham he made an everlasting covenant with him to bless him and his seed forever and to give them the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession that could never change no matter what. Israel was also the land God chose for the coming Messiah to rule all nations for ever.

      God had to let Israel occupy in another land because they were not strong enough to fight off the other surrounding countries who the sons of God were marrying their daughters and producing another race and were in possession of Canaan the promised land.

      When Israel became strong God brought them back to Canaan where they defeated the giants that were occupying the land so the covenant he made with Abraham could be fulfilled.

      Israel demonstrated before all nations the power of the true living God. They experienced the power of God over sickness, disease, poverty, lack, and want; he promised them continued wealth and happiness forever, which they enjoyed as long as they walked in the will of God.

      • #14692

        Raphael Ottley
        Participant

        Yes Marita when their get stronger he did bring back the Israel to the land of Canaan . But the land was promise to them by God for a life time and it for everlasting.

    • #14688

      Raphael Ottley
      Participant

      Prior to reading Bishop Butler’s devotional I fine out that God give the land of Canaan to the nation of Israel forever that mean everlasting which that mean is there land for their life time and their offspring forever . Yes I understand that the rebirth of the nation and it was another miracle for the fulfillment of God promise he made with the nation of Israel and their had ther prophecy . No matter what the United State say their know that the land of Canaan belong to the children of Israel. And it have a covenant that God made for a life time.

      • #14698

        Rhonda
        Participant

        Raphael, I agree with your statement, that no matter what the United States say the land of Canaan belong to the children of Israel. It was truly a sad day back in December 2016 when the U.S. abstained from voting and the UN Security Council adopted a resolution that stated “the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity”. This resolution was approved by a vote of 14 to 0. The U.S. was once Israel’s greatest ally and could have vetoed the resolution. Never the less, I know God has a plan and He will have the final say!

      • #14732

        Marita Smith
        Participant

        As you stated Raffie, United States or any State Department of the United States can say or do anything that can change the covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants concerning the land that belongs to Israel. The land belongs to them, no law they come up with can change that, God’s covenant stands forever or for a life time as you said..

      • #14768

        Donna Riley
        Participant

        Raffie, the United States along with the United Nations know that the land belongs to the Israelites. However, the Bible must fulfill itself. It said in the last days even the US will turn its back on Israel. As seen by the Obama administration, the US did not vote, but used its influence to get the UN to vote for the Palestinians to acquire the Wailing Wall as well as declaring that Israeli building and activity in the West Bank as illegal including building in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Israelites are too dependent on other people to defend her. She needs to turn her eyes back to the living God as her sole provider in every area.

      • #14787

        Celise Mahoney
        Participant

        Hi. Raphael.  The Bible clearly states in Gen 121-9 where God established his covenant relationship with Abram and his descendants ,they became his chosen people, the apple of his eye’s.  We know that God will never break his sworn oath or covenant relationship.  So it doesn’t matter what the U.S. Nations or the U.S. Department says.  What God has spoken and declared, nothig can ever changer it.  He spoke it. It is so. Finished and Sealed Forever.

    • #14696

      Rhonda
      Participant

      Marita, I’m thankful that the Covenant God made with Abraham could never change no matter what. Deuteronomy 7:9 tells us, “Understand, therefore, that the LORD your God is indeed God. He is the faithful God who keeps his covenant for a thousand generations and lavishes his unfailing love on those who love him and obey his commands.”

    • #14716

      Monica Harrigan
      Participant

      Prior to reading Bishop’s devotion I knew that was God’s chosen nation. I knew that the people were the apple of His eyes. God’s Covenant is “forever”; so whether the US or other Nations agrees or assist the people of Israel, God will not break His Covenant.

      My opinion hasn’t changed after reading Bishop’s devotion.  It serves as a reminder that God’s Covenant is forever and the nation of Isreal with prevail as the Covenant Nation that God  chose them to be so many years ago.

      • #14748

        Ezrikah Aska
        Participant

        Monica, God will surely keep His covenant, whether or not America or other nations assist.  I’m reminded of Kenneth Copeland’ s words on his covenant he has with his wife. He said he would kill to protect his covenant with her…God would do the same to protect His covenant with Israel.  That’s why we’re advised to pray for our leaders, pray that they’re a blessing to this nation.  That we would not make the wrong decision, becoming an enemy to them, which would make America an enemy to God…  Like you said, God will not break His covenant.

      • #14770

        Donna Riley
        Participant

        That’s what I love about God. He is true to His Word. When God says something, that’s the way it is, Yes! When God says this is yours, as we say, “You can put on your pot.” This means that it is a done deal, a surety. We can count on the Word of God.

      • #14785

        Celise Mahoney
        Participant

        Hi, Monica.  I too agree with you that God is a covenant initiator, creator, and covenant keeper. No United States Department or United Nations will ever change his covenant promise and relationship withhis chosen people the Nation of Israel.  As long as the bow or rainbow remains in the sky, the Nation of Israel and his seed will always be the apple of his eye’s and his chosen people.  Yes, it’s totally awesome.

    • #14722

      Lilly Chalwell
      Participant

      Prior to reading Bishop Keith Butler devotional, I acquired a better understanding why Israel is continuously encountering battles. God made an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his descendant, which can never be broken or invalidate. This lets me know that even though many nations try to defeat Israel of their inheritances; they will never prosper. As Amos 9:15 stated, “I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them.” Here he is talking about the children of Israel,
      I have heard about Israel encountering difference controversy. However, I have never try to understand the whole picture until now. I seldom wonder why we are asked to “pray for the peace of Jerusalem,” it’s clear now that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. We all know that we have an adversary who will never lay dead and allow us to receive the Promises of God for our life, he will fight with teeth and bone before he leave us to enter into the place God have for us.

    • #14724

      Ezrikah Aska
      Participant

      Prior to reading this devotional or learning of this promise God made between Abraham and Himself, I couldn’t understand why Israel wouldn’t just give up some of the land in efforts to keep the peace between the people. I always questioned “why does America have to get involved with those people over there, why not let them deal with their own problems?!!” I wondered what the big deal was!! Then my mind was changed, or should I say enlightened, when I came under teaching that showed me that this was more than just giving up some land, this was them holding to the covenant between them and their God…they are holding onto what He had given them through their father Abraham. They are holding to what God said “unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance”. God didn’t say He was giving them a piece, the whole land is theirs, and theirs alone.
      As I’m writing this, God showed me that this is what I have done. Why am I allowing the enemy to take my land, take what God has given to me for an inheritance. He has taken more than enough, just like Israel’s land has been taken from them piece by piece over the generations, and I need to stop him, and stop him NOW. Stop allowing someone else to drive your car Ezrikah, live in your house Ezrikah, shop with your money Ezrikah, laugh with your joy Ezrikah, rest in your peace Ezrikah, walk in your health Ezrikah….take back what is rightfully yours, its your inheritance because you are Abraham’s seed!! Like Israel, refuse to give up what God has placed your name on.

      • #14740

        Stacy Gregoire
        Participant

        AMEN Ezrikah! I was thinking the same thing.  Why can it apply to Israel and not to me?  I have covenant promises and I have an inheritance.  Why have I allowed them to be taken away?  It is definitely time to put a stop to that.  We have to remind ourselves of who we are and what we have.

      • #14753

        Monica Harrigan
        Participant

        Ezrikah,  I  like how you applied it to your life in a personal manner. Too often we can let other possess or have free access to our “land” and or “possessions” when they shouldn’t. We surrender our “inheritance” without so much as a form of resistance.  We must remember to fight for what belongs to us just like the nation of Israel!

      • #14840

        Pamela Browne-Hodge
        Participant

        I concur with you, God told Abrahm in Genesis 17:4-8, “Your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

        God is going to bring the people of Israel into unity with each other–one new man. Amen!

    • #14730

      Marita Smith
      Participant

      Just like you Ezrikah I couldn’t understand why those nations were continuously at war with Israel, but now I have a better understanding that it’s because of the covenant God made with them, he said he would honour that covenant unto a thousand generation. The land belongs to them, no matter what; nothing can change that, they are God’s covenant keeping people. It is natural that if anyone tries to take away something that belongs to you; that you would fight to the end to hold on to what belongs to you. I don’t blame them for fighting and protecting what is theirs.

      • #14744

        Ezrikah Aska
        Participant

        Marita and Stacy, I look forward to meeting an Israeli one day.  I would love to hear their version for them holding their land so dearly.  I want to know their take on it, is it because they’ve given away enough and refuse to give anymore, or does the reminder of God’s covenant promise still resound in their families even unto this generation?!  Yes, I’ve read it, but they’re the ones who this is written of….I would love to sit at one of their elder’ s feet to hear the words that have been passed down from one generation to another to remind them of what God promised!!  When I get to glory, I’m looking for Abraham 😉

    • #14736

      Stacy Gregoire
      Participant

      Prior to reading Bishop Butler’s devotional I had known and believed that the land belongs to Israel.  God gave it to Abraham and his descendants as part of an everlasting covenant.  I serve a God who changes not so l know that what God said stands.  This is one area that has been settled for me for a long time.

      My opinion is the same after reading the devotional.  Israel is God’s chosen people and what He gave to them is theirs. Israel knows who the are and what  the have and they are not about to give it up or divide it to satisfy man.  So much propaganda is out there to turn people against Israel but Israel will always prevail because God protects His people.  God continues to bless and protect them because they honor the covenant.

      • #14746

        Ezrikah Aska
        Participant

        Stacy, that’s true, more than enough propaganda indeed.  If I didn’t know what I know now,  I would be singing the same song as everyone else and painting Israel as the bad guy.  The media has magnified this perspective, and posed the same suggestion to the public “why don’t they just settle this and give it up, what’s the big deal?”  I’ve heard it said “what makes them think their better than any other nation of the world?”   Ok, if it’s not a big deal, then why won’t they just let Israel be, and keep their land?  Because, the world does not know the true magnitude, it’s bigger than they can see.  Like God’s word says, things such as these are foolishness to those who lack knowledge in God’s word.

      • #14779

        Denise Torres-Hodge
        Participant

        I agree with sister Stacy. Propaganda turned people against Israel however, God continues to bless and protect them because God honors His Convent. The Israelites inherited the land through covenant and should not allow the enemy to robbed that of it.

      • #14798

        Lilly Chalwell
        Participant

        Sister Stacy, I’m so grateful that God included us as Abraham seed, which allows us to inherit the covenant He made with Abraham. No matter what Israel will always be His chosen people.

    • #14750

      Celise Mahoney
      Participant

      After reading Bishop devotional,  I must say that even though I have seen and heard on the news the controversy surrounding the Nation of Israel,  Ido sometimes think about it, but not in great detail. Mostly when we are in prayer together or when I pray.  I have never eally thought about all the hate, hurt, fighting and pain that they have endured over the years from all those other nations and most of the world.  The fear they feel for their husbands and families,  even now because they are still fighting for Jerusalem,  God chosen city. The bible says that God gave the land of Canaan to Abrahamand his seed for an everlasting convenant.  Not the power of United Nations or the State Department,  or even the workings of the evil one can nullify , break or void the everlasting convenant. I have seen glimpses of the documentart on TV about the Rebirth of the Nation of Israel,  returning to Jerusalem.  That is Jehovah Nissi -the Lord – Israel Banner, who fought the battle for them and continues to fight for them.  Gen 17 : 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger,  all the land of Canaan,  for an everlasting posession, and I will be their God

      • #14755

        Monica Harrigan
        Participant

        Celise, isn’t it awesome how God chose the people of Israel to be his chosen people? The covenant that he’s established with them? Thankfully, we too have an everlasting covenant with God. A Covenant that he keeps as long as we do our part and are obedient to Him. Glory to God!!

    • #14765

      Donna Riley
      Participant

      God promise Abraham because of his obedience and faithfulness a particular piece of property.  This was to be for his family and his future generations. What God has for you belongs to you. The land that belongs to the Jewish people is far greater than what is being debated over now. I believe the Jews should occupy the entire land that God gave them.

      I have heard that the Palestinians does not accept the people who now live in Israel that are Jewish because they are not direct descendants of Abraham. These Jews that now live in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews, originating Germany, Eastern Europe and Turkey. They are from the line of Japheth, Noah’s last son. Abraham came from the line of Shem (the Semitic people blood line of the true Messiah of Israel) the one who God spoke to, to inherit the promise land.

      Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
      Genesis 10:3 The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.   The present Jews in Israel are from the descendants of Gomer not Shem so how can they even lay claim to the promises made to Abraham and his descendants?

      Genesis 10:22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. Abraham came through the line of Arphaxad all the way to Terah his father.                                                                                                                   Genesis 17:3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying:
      Genesis 17:4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
      Genesis 17:5 “No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations.
      Genesis 17:6 “I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you.
      **Genesis 17:7 “And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.
      **Genesis 17:8 “Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

      Now the Bible does say all who believe will be grafted in as we are, but does that mean we are to get a piece of the promise land? No. Now we are finding out the direct descendants are partly coming from Africa who have the DNA of Abraham, but the present Jews occupying Israel have them segregated from the rest of the population. The present government has confessed that they were giving the black African women by force through injection, birth control. Their reasoning being that Black people populate to fast. That is exactly what Pharaoh said about the Israelites in Egypt after the death of Joseph and used this as a mean to enslave them; segregating them in Goshen from the rest of the populous.

      The promise land belongs to the rightful heirs, Abraham descendants out of the line of Shem not Gomer.

      Question to ponder. Who are the real Israelites? Deuteronomy 28 was strictly addressing the real Israelites. Verse 49 states, “The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand” Verse 68 states, “And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.” Which nation is known to have been carried on ships and sold as slaves (bondmen and bondwomen)?  The book of Revelation also talks about Jewish imposters. Who are they? Revelation 2:9, “I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.” 3:9, “Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.”

      • #14781

        Denise Torres-Hodge
        Participant

        I agree with sister Donna, God promise Abraham because of his obedience and faithfulness a particular piece of property. This was to be for his family and his future generations. What God bless let no man curse. This land belongs to the Jewish people. God gave it them the entire land to occupy.

        Yes, Genesis 17:7 “And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant to be a God unto thee and thy seed after thee.”

    • #14777

      Denise Torres-Hodge
      Participant

      My view of Israel and the land controversy has not changed. Just as Bishop Butler’s devotional, I also understood there was no expiration date on God’s Covenant with the nation of Israel. Just as we read in the Blood Covenant by E.W. Kenyon, because of Abraham’s obedience, God cut the Covenant with Abraham and the Israelite nation came into being as a Covenant People. it meant God must sustain and protect Abraham to the very limit. and Gen. 22:16-18 “And said, by myself have I sworn, saith the LORD for because thou hast done this thing, and has not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the sea shore and they see shall possesses the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed: because thou hast obeyed my voice.”

      • #14792

        Monica Harrigan
        Participant

        Denise, isn’t it AWESOME that our Covenant with God doesn’t have an expiration dste? He’s  not a man thst he shall, his heart changes not. It is us humans that falter, walk in sin or are ignorant to God and all that he’s done for us. His love is everlasting, can be compared to no other. All he wants is to commune with us, for us to trust him and for us to be obedient towards him. The Covenant between God and us was paid for with Blood!! The least we can do as Christians is to be obedient and to love him with all our heart and all our might.

      • #14796

        Lilly Chalwell
        Participant

        Sister Denise, we serve an awesome God who never lies and can’t go back on His words. He could not swear by no other, so he has sworn by Himself. Even though Israel was rebelling and they broke the relationship with God, He remembered His covenant that he swore to Abraham, and made away that the Israelites can reconcile back with Him.

    • #14808

      God is a true Covenant keeper. He said it, he promised and he will deliver. Everything that belongs to Israel will be restored. This also includes  us , because we are spiritual Israel. So let’s keep “looking unto the hills from whence cometh, our help cometh from the Lord which made heaven and earth.” Be blessed and be encouraged!

       

    • #14836

      Pamela Browne-Hodge
      Participant

      In my opinion, I have always viewed Israel as the Holy City (set apart for God)–God covenant people. God is a covenant keeping God and He takes His covenants very seriously because they are the mechanism by which his kingdom functions. Prior to reading this devotional I knew about the rebirth of the nation in 1948; as well as, the natiion fighting to restore the land. The nation of Israel is the apple of God’s eye and my opinion about Israel has not changed God will perform what He said He will do–His Word will not return to Him void. The Word says God’s gifts are irrevocable, and He never withdraw them once they are given–God will make their enemies to be at peace with them. Glory be to God!

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